Despite what appear to be huge voids in communication and negotiations, the consensus is GM and Chrysler will ask for as much as $8 billion (C$10 billion) . The original request was for $3.2 billion (C$4 billion) and was based on the Canadian government's obligation to lend an amount equal to 20 percent of the U.S. bailout figure to protect Canadian operations that provide one-fifth of North American production.

If the U.S. government approves the latest request for $39 billion, that equates to $7.8 billion (C$10 billion) in Canadian aid, with three quarters earmarked for GM.

President Barack Obama, in a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Ottawa on Thursday, said both countries must work together to help the auto industry. 'It's going to be very important for our government to coordinate closely with the Canadian government in whatever approach that we decide to take,' Obama said, according to Bloomberg News.

While the automakers will ask for more money, it is unclear whether the reports they submit will cite exact figures, largely because everything hinges on the final outcome in the U.S. All participants on the Canadian side know that without a U.S. bailout, there is little Canada's governments can do to save the two automakers.

But the need is as great.

'Canada is not operating in the black,' said analyst Dennis DesRosiers of DesRosiers Automotive Consulting in Richmond Hill, Ont. 'They have substantial cash burn too.'

Adding to their woes is a shortfall in the billions in GM Canada's pension funds and Chrysler is involved in a complicated tax battle involving $500 million.

As for concessions from stakeholders, Canadian bondholders are being dealt with as part of the U.S. negotiations. Suppliers and dealers are part of a North American solution and subject to many of the same cuts as their American counterparts, DesRosiers said.

CAW President Ken Lewenza said he will negotiate to ensure the work force is competitive with the Big Three in the U.S.

Negotiations, affecting about 19,000 CAW members, are expected to start next week.

Harper has said he expects the loss of Canadian jobs under the plan GM submitted Tuesday to cut its global work force by 47,000 employees in 2009. GM's 2,000 salaried workers will see cuts in jobs and pay beginning in May.

Chrysler's U.S. restructuring plan said it will cut 3,000 jobs and eliminate a shift from one of its plants. Tom LaSorda, vice chairman and the head of manufacturing, said the Canadian operations are safe. That includes the three-shift minivan plant in Windsor and the rear-drive-car facility in Brampton, Ont.

To meet today's deadline, GM and Chrysler will 'do a cut and paste of their U.S. submission with some Canadian numbers,' DesRosiers said.